Why scamming club funds is not punishable!?

[AviatorAysar]

Hello Everybody

NOTE: This can be cancelled after Joshy's suggestion is accepted and applied in game!

So for the time-being:
I want to suggest that: Leaders that scams club funds should be punished and club should be re-funded!!

Counter Argument:
  1- Its founder responsibility
               Okay, then the one who loans money, is the loaner responsibility, as well.. (I mean by loans (personal loans - Here
  2- What if the scammer doesn't have enough money to refund the club?
               What happens if the one that gets the money from the loan dont have enough money to refund the loaner? (Maybe use server funds)

[Shock]

-Server administrators now no longer are responsible for your actions as far as choosing trustworthy staff go. (If you choose a person to be Leader, and they spend all the club money without permission, that is your responsibilty). >>> http://www.forum.convoytrucking.net/index.php?topic=5560.0



Its your responsibility to chose who will manage your club with you in it. If they spend your club money its your fault cause you gave them the trust.

[AviatorAysar]

-Server administrators now no longer are responsible for your actions as far as choosing trustworthy staff go. (If you choose a person to be Leader, and they spend all the club money without permission, that is your responsibilty). >>> http://www.forum.convoytrucking.net/index.php?topic=5560.0



Its your responsibility to chose who will manage your club with you in it. If they spend your club money its your fault cause you gave them the trust.

That is true shock but did you read the counter argument^^^?
Aren't you responsible for your money too?? Why admins punish the players for scamming, its the player responsibility. he shouldn't give money for someone he dont trust  Right?

[Vinny]

Aren't you responsible for your money too?? Why admins punish the players for scamming, its the player responsibility. he shouldn't give money for someone he dont trust  Right?

I think no one can deny that he has a point

[AviatorAysar]

Aren't you responsible for your money too?? Why admins punish the players for scamming, its the player responsibility. he shouldn't give money for someone he dont trust  Right?

I think no one can deny that he has a point

Thanks Mr. Vinny

[Joshy]

The problem with admins getting in the way of club staff decisions is that there's no definite way to know the intentions of club staff, and if the founder's approval is needed before purchasing club vehicles then what's the point in leaders being able to purchase club vehicles?

What could be done however is clubs making a club rule in their noticeboards saying "club leaders must not purchase vehicles without approval from founder/<names>" or "club leaders must not purchase non-work vehicles" etc. Those who decide to break these rules can be kicked from the club, so admin can sell their club vehicles (as they are technically owned by the club so they should not be able to own them anymore) and then make up the difference from the vehicle selling price and purchase price manually. I think this is reasonable personally (it's ∞ times better than right now)

[AviatorAysar]

The problem with admins getting in the way of club staff decisions is that there's no definite way to know the intentions of club staff, and if the founder's approval is needed before purchasing club vehicles then what's the point in leaders being able to purchase club vehicles?

Leaders are allowed to buy club vehicles but not scam club vehicles ((Like they did with David))
Buy sell buy sell buy sell
and when they do this and they got reported they should get punished

What could be done however is clubs making a club rule in their noticeboards saying "club leaders must not purchase vehicles without approval from founder/<names>" or "club leaders must not purchase non-work vehicles" etc. Those who decide to break these rules can be kicked from the club, so admin can sell their club vehicles (as they are technically owned by the club so they should not be able to own them anymore) and then make up the difference from the vehicle selling price and purchase price manually. I think this is reasonable personally (it's ∞ times better than right now)

Okay Im doing something similar to this:
on Promotion to Leader form hereLink:
Its written that he accept leader rules..

and here is the leader rules: Link

So I think when he make this form and he accept it!!

If he tried to scam, he should get punished, vehicles sold, check the difference, and refund the club!!
As u said at the end

[Joshy]

The problem with admins getting in the way of club staff decisions is that there's no definite way to know the intentions of club staff, and if the founder's approval is needed before purchasing club vehicles then what's the point in leaders being able to purchase club vehicles?

Leaders are allowed to buy club vehicles but not scam club vehicles ((Like they did with David))
Buy sell buy sell buy sell
and when they do this and they got reported they should get punished

Oh if they are repeatedly buying and selling club vehicles, honestly that should count as scamming since it's very obvious that they are only doing it to waste club funds. "Using another player's trust for joke" would count as scamming under rule 11

[Vinny]

The whole idea of players owning club vehicles is pointless in my opinion. "Club" vehicles should belong to the club, not the members.

[AviatorAysar]

The whole idea of players owning club vehicles is pointless in my opinion. "Club" vehicles should belong to the club, not the members.

Check my next suggestion m8...
It about what you are talking about

[AviatorAysar]

The problem with admins getting in the way of club staff decisions is that there's no definite way to know the intentions of club staff, and if the founder's approval is needed before purchasing club vehicles then what's the point in leaders being able to purchase club vehicles?

Leaders are allowed to buy club vehicles but not scam club vehicles ((Like they did with David))
Buy sell buy sell buy sell
and when they do this and they got reported they should get punished

Oh if they are repeatedly buying and selling club vehicles, honestly that should count as scamming since it's very obvious that they are only doing it to waste club funds. "Using another player's trust for joke" would count as scamming under rule 11

Yeah but admins are not counting it under rule 11 

[CarlJohnson]

The whole idea of players owning club vehicles is pointless in my opinion. "Club" vehicles should belong to the club, not the members.

Clubs weren't ment for money earlier, they were more of a guild, the club system was introduced to standardize club base renting system. However even I think it's time for a change.

That's what I've felt until now, I can't see why this is not considered scamming, let look at one of the example -

Player1 > Player2: Hey! Can you make me leader at your club if I donate 1m?
Player2: Yes
Player1: Ok promote me and I'll donate
*Player1 gets promoted*
*Player1 promotes his friends and wastes club funds*

Player1 here has been scammed by Player2 because of his lack of knowledge
I can't see why this is not considered scamming since this is using player's lack of knowledge for own benefit something like /q for 1m

The problem with admins getting in the way of club staff decisions is that there's no definite way to know the intentions of club staff, and if the founder's approval is needed before purchasing club vehicles then what's the point in leaders being able to purchase club vehicles?

What could be done however is clubs making a club rule in their noticeboards saying "club leaders must not purchase vehicles without approval from founder/<names>" or "club leaders must not purchase non-work vehicles" etc. Those who decide to break these rules can be kicked from the club, so admin can sell their club vehicles (as they are technically owned by the club so they should not be able to own them anymore) and then make up the difference from the vehicle selling price and purchase price manually. I think this is reasonable personally (it's ∞ times better than right now)

Im only worried about false reports, lets take a example of Hydra Airlines for now, I've been leader at Hydra Airlines ever since and usually I can buy whatever vehicle I want without donating anything (though I do) and without seeking Elva's (club founder) permission, but someday somehow due to a fight or something she reports me for scamming, there's no easy way of finding out if Im innocent or not. I'll be guilty for admins.

[AviatorAysar]

The whole idea of players owning club vehicles is pointless in my opinion. "Club" vehicles should belong to the club, not the members.

Clubs weren't ment for money earlier, they were more of a guild, the club system was introduced to standardize club base renting system. However even I think it's time for a change.

That's what I've felt until now, I can't see why this is not considered scamming, let look at one of the example -

Player1 > Player2: Hey! Can you make me leader at your club if I donate 1m?
Player2: Yes
Player1: Ok promote me and I'll donate
*Player1 gets promoted*
*Player1 promotes his friends and wastes club funds*

Player1 here has been scammed by Player2 because of his lack of knowledge
I can't see why this is not considered scamming since this is using player's lack of knowledge for own benefit something like /q for 1m

Cj, exactly the same when someone gives a loan ill give u an example:
Player 2 > Pla 1: Hey, can I have 1 million dollar for 2 days, and I will return 2 million.
Player 1: Yes, sure
Pla 1 give to Pla 2 1 million dollar...
But after 2 days, where are the money???
Bomb!! no money

He used his lack of knowledge as advantage for him (player 2)
So he is getting punished..

Question is:
This player two why he dont get punished when he use lack of knowledge of founder??
Although not all founder promote leaders

The problem with admins getting in the way of club staff decisions is that there's no definite way to know the intentions of club staff, and if the founder's approval is needed before purchasing club vehicles then what's the point in leaders being able to purchase club vehicles?

What could be done however is clubs making a club rule in their noticeboards saying "club leaders must not purchase vehicles without approval from founder/<names>" or "club leaders must not purchase non-work vehicles" etc. Those who decide to break these rules can be kicked from the club, so admin can sell their club vehicles (as they are technically owned by the club so they should not be able to own them anymore) and then make up the difference from the vehicle selling price and purchase price manually. I think this is reasonable personally (it's ∞ times better than right now)

Im only worried about false reports, lets take a example of Hydra Airlines for now, I've been leader at Hydra Airlines ever since and usually I can buy whatever vehicle I want without donating anything (though I do) and without seeking Elva's (club founder) permission, but someday somehow due to a fight or something she reports me for scamming, there's no easy way of finding out if Im innocent or not. I'll be guilty for admins.

[Ethan]

I can't see why this is not considered scamming, let look at one of the example -

Player1 > Player2: Hey! Can you make me leader at your club if I donate 1m?
Player2: Yes
Player1: Ok promote me and I'll donate
*Player1 gets promoted*
*Player1 promotes his friends and wastes club funds*

Player1 here has been scammed by Player2 because of his lack of knowledge

Player 1 has to have some kind of trust for Player 2 NOT to waste club funds.. If you promote them without really knowing the person, and they waste club funds, thats a RISK you took to begin with..

player 1 has known player 2 for 3 years, has been many "loans" back and forth and have no issues paying each other back.
player 1 promotes player 2 because he/she knows them so well and they continue to enjoy the server..

player 1 has known player 2 for 4 months, theyve had a couple of issues but nothing serious.
player 1 promotes player 2 and player then wastes club money..  player 2 has now scammed player 1 from club money because "he used his lack of knowledge?"  lack of what knowledge??? the fact that he didnt know the person long enough or something?

[CarlJohnson]

So why return the money gained by scamming players then? Its also a RISK you took, I can't see why you fail to consider this is scamming.

[AviatorAysar]

So why return the money gained by scamming players then? Its also a RISK you took, I can't see why you fail to consider this is scamming.

CJ: Its also a RISK you take, when you give someone a loan!! (imnt sticking to loan idea [but this is the truth])..

+
Since its risk, a rule should be added for risky things

like I cant see how any of the club scammers are playing normaly as nothing happened but they are scamming clubs around!! And yeah they are like its normal!! Some guys tried to make this with me 2 days ago.. I caught them

[CarlJohnson]

So why return the money gained by scamming players then? Its also a RISK you took, I can't see why you fail to consider this is scamming.

CJ: Its also a RISK you take, when you give someone a loan!! (imnt sticking to loan idea [but this is the truth])..

+
Since its risk, a rule should be added for risky things

like I cant see how any of the club scammers are playing normaly as nothing happened but they are scamming clubs around!! And yeah they are like its normal!! Some guys tried to make this with me 2 days ago.. I caught them

That's what I said...

[AviatorAysar]

So why return the money gained by scamming players then? Its also a RISK you took, I can't see why you fail to consider this is scamming.

CJ: Its also a RISK you take, when you give someone a loan!! (imnt sticking to loan idea [but this is the truth])..

+
Since its risk, a rule should be added for risky things

like I cant see how any of the club scammers are playing normaly as nothing happened but they are scamming clubs around!! And yeah they are like its normal!! Some guys tried to make this with me 2 days ago.. I caught them

That's what I said...

Are you supporting the idea or no?? .....